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| How many times per week do you eat fast food? |
| Never! I don't put that crap in my body! |
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26% |
[ 5 ] |
| Once or twice per week |
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52% |
[ 10 ] |
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21% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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| Author |
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 Cocles
Commodore
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 15
Posts: 2587
Location: Los Angeles, CA
    
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Legolas
Commander
Joined: Aug 08, 2002
Member#: 178
Posts: 857
Location: Drunkest state in USA
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 Posted:
Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:50 am Post subject: |
 
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I just saw the twit on t.v.... "TODAY SHOW" Katy Kurrick was so happy to be with another U.S. hater.
Nice links cocles! |
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Hurr78
Commander
Joined: Feb 12, 2004
Member#: 5061
Posts: 739
Location: Toronto
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Posted:
Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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That "Michael Moore Hates America" film looks great... I like the little reference to "Roger and Me" at the end of the new trailer. Hopefully somebody will screen it in my town. |
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Cocles
Commodore
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 15
Posts: 2587
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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JERIC 
Fleet Admiral (Proprietor)
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Member#: 1
Posts: 4939
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Good article, Cocles.
_________________
"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?." -Maximus
Please do not PM me. Use email, Feedback or Contact Us links. |
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zirael
Commander
Joined: Feb 05, 2004
Member#: 4924
Posts: 795
Location: North Carolina
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Posted:
Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Lego, I don't think Moore hates America, he just wants more transparency in how the Bush cabinet made their decision to go to war. I mean, even the 9/11 commission has said that there was no connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
I think the Slate article has valid points because Moore does a poor job of fact checking and is not up to traditional documentary standards. But I'm definitely gonna see the Fahrenheit film so I can see what Bush did during those 6-7 min. after he heard about the 9/11 attacks. |
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Cocles
Commodore
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 15
Posts: 2587
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted:
Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Zirael, I think you missed the big point of that article, or you're at least purposefully understating what it had to say. "...not up to traditional documentary standards" is certainly a kind way to put it. I hope our listeners read that article themselves and not just go by your biassed opinion of it.
Anyways, do you guys want the latest on Michael Moore? Of course you do.
The MPAA gave 9/11 an R rating. Moore and his distributor appealed, and lost.
Now Michael Moore's furious because this is such a travesty! The government can send our teenagers to fight and die in Iraq, yet these same teenagers can not see his film!
The minimum age requirement for joining the military is 17. The minimum age for seeing an R rated film is 17. (Plus, while you need parental consent to join the military at 17, you don't need it to see an R rated film.)
In other words, there is no one valid for military service in the US, who can not see this film. Even with the R rating.
Why does Michael Moore spout lies like this? Because he caters to the unthinking cattle of our world who won't take 10 seconds to step back and actually think about what they're being told.
Would you like to know what's really going on? I'll give you a little info as someone who works in the entertainment biz.
The PG-13 rating is a gold mine to film makers. Studios fight for the PG-13 rating if they at all possibly can, because it is an established Hollywood fact that PG-13 movies average much, much more at the box office than R rated movies.
Moore's concern is over the money he'll lose at the box office, not over some fictional travesty he made up to help his image of a champion for the people. |
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JERIC
Fleet Admiral (Proprietor)
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Member#: 1
Posts: 4939
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:37 am Post subject: |
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That's true about the ratings. After watching many DVD bonus footage I've seen what film makers do to get a R rating down to a PG-13 or even worse is the NC-17 to an R like Fight Club.
Well articulated Cocles.
P.S. I signed up when I was 17. 
_________________
"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?." -Maximus
Please do not PM me. Use email, Feedback or Contact Us links. |
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 j2brown
Commodore
Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Member#: 9
Posts: 3188
Location: Sterling, VA
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Posted:
Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Cocles wrote: |
| [...] it is an established Hollywood fact that PG-13 movies average much, much more at the box office than R rated movies. |
Just curious, how do PG and G stack up compared to the rest. I always hear that the highest grossing movies of all time (adjusted for inflation, I guess) are PG or G. Any truth to that, at least in your experience?
jeff
sdg
edited to try and cover my horrible spelling
Last edited by j2brown on Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cocles
Commodore
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 15
Posts: 2587
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted:
Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:55 am Post subject: |
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In my experience, the two big money makers today are PG and PG-13 with PG-13 pulling a bit ahead of PG.
PG-13 tends to be the sweet spot since the material is adult orientated enough to attract more adults, while still allowing in those ever so crucial 13-16 year olds who spend so much dough at the theaters.
Three links for you to look at.
These are the highest grossing films of all time in the US Box office:
http://imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross
These are the highest grossing films of all time NOT including the US box office:
http://imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross?region=non-us
And these are the highest grossing films for the entire world wide box office. As far as I'm concerned this is the most relevent list as it's really the true total of how much the movie grossed. Also, as a film maker, you're better guarranteed success in today's market by focussing on a "World" audience rather than just an "American" audience.
http://imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross?region=world-wide
The American press to this day tends to be a little... odd (arrogant?) in that they often don't report this world wide number, just the domestic. You'll remember the newspapers spouting a few years ago that Sony's Godzilla bombed. What they should have said was "It bombed in the USA." Because when taking into account the world wide market, Godzilla actually turned a profit (#71 on the list).
You might also remember "Bean"? American's laughed and yelled "What a flop! This film sucks!" Well... the makers of that film intended it for a world wide market. They made it for $22 million. It grossed $232 million (#200 on the list). I'd write a "flop" like that any day.
But to get back to your question, I'd scroll down that world wide list and check out how many of those are PG-13 vs PG. You'll also see a few G and R films, but they play a far second fiddle to PG and the mighty PG-13. |
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Legolas
Commander
Joined: Aug 08, 2002
Member#: 178
Posts: 857
Location: Drunkest state in USA
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Posted:
Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| zirael wrote: |
| Lego, I don't think Moore hates America, he just wants more transparency in how the Bush cabinet made their decision to go to war. I mean, even the 9/11 commission has said that there was no connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq. |
I agree with you that Mr. Moore may not hate America... Its just his angle to make shit loads of money by all the "scared" sheep of the U.S. He gives away a small percentage of money to say he cares, but the rest he saves up.
As for his films the guy never makes a point or conclusive endings to his films... I have seen Bowling for Columbine and what I got out of it is that the U.S. reports more negative images then anyone else. Everyone is driven by fear, a small white guy see's a black guy and get scared... A black guy sees a white bald guy and gets scared... He proved that our media is negative by comparing us to Canada, and Europe... He even said Canada has more guns per capita then the U.S. But at the end of the film, he tries to pin it on gun control... Ruling out all personal responsibility of those bastard kids.
And the whole problem with the 9/11 commission, is that it was never supposed to be about Iraq. It was supposed to be on how we handled ourselves during 9/11. And besides the Bush Admin never said Iraq was behind Al Queda. (they have highly trained people watching over their words, masters of word play... ) Bush Admin said that Iraq and Al Q had talks prior to 9/11. Which did happen, the comssion admits that... There is just no hard proof that Iraq really did anything that had to do with the WTC. All the commission knew they could have talked about J.Lo and Ben Affleck.
| zirael wrote: |
| I think the Slate article has valid points because Moore does a poor job of fact checking and is not up to traditional documentary standards. But I'm definitely gonna see the Fahrenheit film so I can see what Bush did during those 6-7 min. after he heard about the 9/11 attacks. |
The thing about documentaries are that they are boring... Hardly any drama, just straight facts... When you go away from those facts and twist the facts or minipulate them into a message you want to send, then its no longer a documentary... It's then a micheal moore film.
As for the 6-7 minutes after the attacks... Ask yourself, what would you do? A camera is on you, in front of a class room of kids, you hear the news... "The U.S. is being attacked..." Do you A) cry like a babey? B) Scream a war cry and run out of the building C) sit there and process it, and really think about what it means, look at all of those innocent kids in front of you who will have to live a far different life than what anyone has expected of them... A realize that you can either let more attacks happen or do what ever you can to make sure kids like the oens you are looking at will always be safe.
I think choice C is pretty deep and what most people would probably do in that situation... Personally after that short 7 minutes... I would be getting on air force one and taking a shot of whisky.
The Only thing I like about the moore film is that in the previews, they play the track from the movie snatch where mickey has the bare knuckle fight. I'm sure I'll see this film but I will wait until video. |
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Legolas
Commander
Joined: Aug 08, 2002
Member#: 178
Posts: 857
Location: Drunkest state in USA
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Posted:
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
just thought I would post this site. And maybe mention that this whole moore thing should be its own thread. |
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Wolf99
Ensign
Joined: Nov 02, 2003
Member#: 3543
Posts: 33
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Posted:
Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Cocles wrote: |
| Hurr78 wrote: |
| Cocles wrote: |
Some of you guys can be such peons sometimes.
That's all I'll say. |
lol... oh come on Cocles, join the debate. It's all in good fun! |
If you say so.
| Quote: |
| Sure, documentaries are manipulative. They have an agenda to push and most of us understand that. |
Most people understand that? ...That is one of the most naive statements I've heard in a long time.
| Quote: |
| Did I enjoy seeing Super Size Me push its agenda? Definitely. |
Whatever floats your boat.
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| Did I agree with every bit of its argument? Most definitely not. As it happens, I personally think the biggest problem with the obesity epidemic is not the fast food but the lack of physical fitness. |
Good for you.
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| And I think that Super Size Me cleverly manuevered away from that angle to push the fast food aspect. |
If you think that's clever you're easily impressed.
| Quote: |
| But on the whole, it still had impact. And impact is entertaining. |
Impact? "Schindler's List" had impact. Not only are you easily impressed but you're also easily entertained. I personally find it sickening that you come on here and begin spouting praise for Michael Moore. It's not so much that I dislike Michael Moore as much as it's that I think people who listen to that guy should be sterilized and sent off somewhere where I don't have to see or listen to them. The man twists the truth and manipulates with such blatancy, that it actually manages to sadden me whenever I see yet another person falling for it. Anyone with an IQ of a walnut should be able to see and understand his tactics, yet whenever he's mentioned I find myself arguing with another fool who sings to me about, "What a wonderful man Michael Moore is because he truly cares about the people!" Are people really that dumb and easily led? Absolutely. He's the flavor of the week, and I look forward to when this Michael Moore fad is finally over. |
Oh, he's here to stay Cocles. By the way, how did his most recent movie about George W. Bush do at the box office? How about Stephen Spielberg's most recent movie? |
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Cocles
Commodore
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 15
Posts: 2587
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted:
Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Ermmm, the fact that Moore's film has done well in the box office can support my claim that he's just a fad, just as well as it can support a claim that he's here to stay. |
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Cocles
Commodore
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 15
Posts: 2587
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted:
Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Legolas wrote: |
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
just thought I would post this site. And maybe mention that this whole moore thing should be its own thread. |
Lego, just had to say, that's an excellent site! And I edited the title of this thread instead of splitting it, since discussion has naturally evolved. |
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