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EdMcMan
Ensign
Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Member#: 423
Posts: 26
Location: Corellia
     
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 Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject: |
 
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Eyedea, I agree with you completely. It's a shame that anyone who questions the actions of the US becomes a traitor, or biased, or whatever you want. Just look at "freedom fries". We're mad at the french because they are trying to actually enforce UN policies, rather than just make up "Bush knows better than the UN. In fact, Bush knows better than everyone" policies. |
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EyeDea
Lieutenant
Joined: Dec 09, 2002
Member#: 298
Posts: 204
Location: Vancouver Canada
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Just adding to what EdMcMan, some reporters even lose their jobs for standing up and reporting the dirty but true facts. i find it very interesting that this article i linked to was taken off.
The article basicly reported the "real" events that happend when allied forces made their little runs into Bagdad. Lets just say not every Iraqi was cheering and holding flowers, and they werent shooting at the forces either. They showed their dismay of this invasion with words.
It also discribed a scene with an injured iraqi boy lieing in a pool of his own blood, while allied forced around him cheered after taking control of a part of bagdad. I cant remember the exact words that the boys father said, but let me tell you it was anything but pro-bush.
This is all ACURATE INFORMATION, this is realy what is happening. There are no flowers or parties, there is just death and destruction. This is not a liberating force, despite what cnn or other "BIASED" sources will tell you. THAT is my point.
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By responding in any way shape or form, you contractually agree that I’m right, and youre wrong. |
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 JERIC 
Fleet Admiral (Proprietor)
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Member#: 1
Posts: 4939
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| EdMcMan wrote: |
| We're mad at the french because they are trying to actually enforce UN policies, rather than just make up "Bush knows better than the UN. In fact, Bush knows better than everyone" policies. |
That is incorrect, it was France (and others) that wanted to deviate and extend the date stated "U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441" which called for Irag to disarm or "it will face serious consequences" if it continues to violate its obligations as spelled out in the resolution. Bush gave Saddam 3 days past the date to surrender. The U.S. & U.K. enforced the resolution.
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"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?." -Maximus
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JERIC
Fleet Admiral (Proprietor)
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Member#: 1
Posts: 4939
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| EyeDea wrote: |
| This is all ACURATE INFORMATION, this is realy what is happening. There are no flowers or parties, there is just death and destruction. This is not a liberating force, despite what cnn or other "BIASED" sources will tell you. THAT is my point. |
So, are those actors that I see on TV or just old tapes of Desert Storm?
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Yvond
Lieutenant
Joined: Apr 02, 2002
Member#: 39
Posts: 178
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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LOL, Jeric!
Why don't you tell us where you really stand? 
Well said. Wish I could get my points across that succintly. |
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EdMcMan
Ensign
Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Member#: 423
Posts: 26
Location: Corellia
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Serious consequences does not necesarily mean invasion. One would think since the US went to the UN in the first place, they would follow their advice on how to proceed. |
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EyeDea
Lieutenant
Joined: Dec 09, 2002
Member#: 298
Posts: 204
Location: Vancouver Canada
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| JERIC wrote: |
| EdMcMan wrote: |
| We're mad at the french because they are trying to actually enforce UN policies, rather than just make up "Bush knows better than the UN. In fact, Bush knows better than everyone" policies. |
That is incorrect, it was France (and others) that wanted to deviate and extend the date stated "U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441" which called for Irag to disarm or "it will face serious consequences" if it continues to violate its obligations as spelled out in the resolution. Bush gave Saddam 3 days past the date to surrender. The U.S. & U.K. enforced the resolution. |
What about Israel?, they under a UN resolution as well, which they are ignoring, and they actualy have WMDs.
And just for comparison sake, I will totaly agree that saddam wasnt exactly an angel to his people, but ask any palastinian how sharon treats them and you will see my point.
I dont see how they (us/uk) can totaly ignore one countries resolution failures, and literaly invade another one for same failures. It just seems to me there are altirior motives.
_________________
By responding in any way shape or form, you contractually agree that I’m right, and youre wrong. |
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JERIC
Fleet Admiral (Proprietor)
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Member#: 1
Posts: 4939
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| EyeDea wrote: |
| JERIC wrote: |
| EdMcMan wrote: |
| We're mad at the french because they are trying to actually enforce UN policies, rather than just make up "Bush knows better than the UN. In fact, Bush knows better than everyone" policies. |
That is incorrect, it was France (and others) that wanted to deviate and extend the date stated "U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441" which called for Irag to disarm or "it will face serious consequences" if it continues to violate its obligations as spelled out in the resolution. Bush gave Saddam 3 days past the date to surrender. The U.S. & U.K. enforced the resolution. |
What about Israel?, they under a UN resolution as well, which they are ignoring, and they actualy have WMDs.
And just for comparison sake, I will totaly agree that saddam wasnt exactly an angel to his people, but ask any palastinian how sharon treats them and you will see my point.
I dont see how they (us/uk) can totaly ignore one countries resolution failures, and literaly invade another one for same failures. It just seems to me there are altirior motives. |
The reason for holding Iraq more accountable is because they are more of a direct and indirect threat to the U.S. and their surrounding countries. What would stop them from selling their WMD to the very same people responsible for 9-11? So, what about Israel? I've been there twice and never had to worry about their government killing me unjustifiably. Iraq is (was) a threat to peace to everyone, everywhere and it harbors terrorism. To compare Iraq to Israel is just flat out silly.
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"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?." -Maximus
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EdMcMan
Ensign
Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Member#: 423
Posts: 26
Location: Corellia
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO there are other countries more dangerous than Iraq. I'm sure this has nothing to do with oil, though. |
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EyeDea
Lieutenant
Joined: Dec 09, 2002
Member#: 298
Posts: 204
Location: Vancouver Canada
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| What would stop them from selling their WMD to the very same people responsible for 9-11? |
What WMD, thus far Iraq has none. And the fact remains, Israel is under a resolution for a reason, be it the US recodnises them as a threat or not. Hehe, that my friend, you cant deny.
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By responding in any way shape or form, you contractually agree that I’m right, and youre wrong. |
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Yvond
Lieutenant
Joined: Apr 02, 2002
Member#: 39
Posts: 178
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry...after Jeric's post about France, I just couldn't resist. Although I may not agree with the initial premise of the war, we are there now and that's the reality we must face. Most important to this discussion, however, is Jeric's point...
Last edited by Yvond on Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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JERIC
Fleet Admiral (Proprietor)
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Member#: 1
Posts: 4939
Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| EdMcMan wrote: |
| Serious consequences does not necesarily mean invasion. One would think since the US went to the UN in the first place, they would follow their advice on how to proceed. |
So what does "Serious Consequences" mean to you? If someone said that to me, I would think that I am about to get my ass kicked. 
And I hate that word "invasion". It implies "occupation" which, please don't tell me that's why you think the U.S. is there.
The U.N. failed. Why? Because France said they would veto any addendum that would actually enforce the very resolution that they agreed to in November. Why? Maybe because they are getting a great deal on oil in exchange for weapons and chemicals? Who knows?
So who is the real hypocrite here?
_________________
"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?." -Maximus
Please do not PM me. Use email, Feedback or Contact Us links. |
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EdMcMan
Ensign
Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Member#: 423
Posts: 26
Location: Corellia
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Of course we are not occupying. We're only 'helping the iraqis set up a new government'. Just like with Japan. And the US companies going to refine oil are only going to help Iraqis set up their new government too.
I'm not saying there are no real reasons to attempt to remove Saddam. Unfortunately, Bush has none of those in mind. Honestly, Saddam has been a nuisance since when Bush's daddy was in office. Why the sudden urgency of getting rid of him? Did the weapons of mass destruction fall from the sky?
If France said they would veto (and stop the US' proposal) that is how it should be. That's what a veto is for. If Bush was going to neglect the UN's decision, he never should have went there in the first place.
The real hypocrite here is the nation who dropped two nuclear bombs on non-combatants in order to create terror that would hopefully avoid a war is taking it upon itself to become the sole protector of the world from weapons of mass destruction. |
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Cocles
Commodore
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 15
Posts: 2587
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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It's ridiculous, while France may say our motivation is mostly oil, they're motivation is ENTIRELY oil.
They're French. Let them be. France has always cared about one thing and one thing alone, and that's France!
Last edited by Cocles on Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wolf
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Mar 06, 2002
Member#: 16
Posts: 448
Location: Right behind you...
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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You know, I dont like to bitch about my country but you have to remember that France was actually selling weapons to Irak (misiles, helicopters and Mirages Jets). This is why in the first Gulf War, our nice pilots had the bad surprise to have to evade misiles "made in France". I am pretty sure that they continued afterwards, in one way or another and I can say that Germany most probably did it as well. So did Russia.
I am still however against this war and do think there are other ways than war to resolve problems. You might also consider this article from Newsweek: http://www.msnbc.com/news/892744.asp
I'd say Cheney is having a profit out of it...
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Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate... leads to suffering. |
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