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USA Legolas
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:05 pm   Post subject: Nerds only! Reply with quote


That's right! You are a nerd! Nerds only and you show up! But what's this I am the host. Well I am just a nerd by day; by night I am a super nerd!

Anywho with some of my other fellow nerds discussing time travel again in the chat it got me thinking on fate once again...

So do you believe in fate? I do, and I came to that conclusion by thinking of time travel. Okay so we all know you can't go into the past and kill yourself because then you would have never been able to go back in time to do it.... And you can't change anything in the past that is to closely related to you. Because it will have affected your present day and made you possibly be somewhere different that made you miss the opportunity to change the past.

However there are some arguments about this in film. Such as Back to the future, Terminator movies, the kid's sends a friend back in time to become his father. Rolling Eyes that's crazy... and in the movie frequency the main character talks to his father from the past over an old ham radio that is malfunctioning because of the northern lights...he saves his dads life but yet in the future(his present( he still remembers the way it used to be...thats not possible...

that is why time travel to the past will never be possible. becuase of fate making things the way they are. come to think of it traveling into the future would be impossible as well. maybe.. let me work through it... Okay i am going to die in 3 years but i will travel 4 years into the future so that i can see my kids big game... in his life he would have seen me die a year ago. but there i would be a year later looking four years younger. that would prove fate is what you make it. and the past is what was made... so the future would be confusing... like me right now. ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

*brain melts*

Help me fellow nerds, and geeks. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:02 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Miss EyeDae that much, Leggy? Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:10 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Yvond wrote:
Miss EyeDae that much, Leggy? Wink


LOL
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:00 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Yvond wrote:
Miss EyeDae that much, Leggy? Wink
Shocked

lol, you sure bring back memories lol
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:22 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


OK Lego. Let's work our way through this. In your example you are going to die in 3 years yet you tavel in time forward 4 years to see the game. You are still the same age as when you left because you did not travel in time other than at the normal rate one travels in time (ie 1 sec per sec). What you have done is stepped from one 'chapter' of time into another. Just like skipping a chapter in a book. You have no knowledge of time frame 2 that elapsed between time frame 1 and time frame 3. For a person to travel in time in a relativistic sense he would have to experience the time frame/s that he is skipping past. This where the idea of the twins aging at different rates comes into play.

In this theory you place 1 twin in a ship that is moving at the speed of light and the other remains on a planet. After one year on the ship the one on the ship will have aged 1 year yet the other would be an old man from the prospective of the twin on the ship. The reverse is true of the twin that remained on the planet. He aged normally for many years yet the twin on the ship seemed not to have aged. If this theory is continued to it's logical conclusion then Faster Than Light (FTL) travel would alow one to travel backwards in time. in the perspective of the traveller. One version of this is that time itself is self correcting of parradox. There would be no parradox by your presence in the past (ie before you have aven been born) because from the perpective of the current time fram you were always there! Lost you yet? Good! Keep up! Smile

Continuing with this theory if you were to attempt to murder your father to prevent your birth you would be prevented from accomplishing this through 'fate'. In effect, the closer you come to causing paradox the harder it gets in an exponential scale until it bomes infinitely improbable to achieve this task.

Time travel in the futer presents far less chances for paradox as the future has yet to be written. If you follow the theory of the 'multiverse' it would be almost impossible to travel into the real future just merely a possible future. To expound on this, imagine that for every instance in time you are faced with a decision. Every choice that you make will affect the course of history to one degree or another. (Do I call in sick today or not) with over 5 billion lives on the planet all making thier own decisions the number of possible futures doubles at least once a second! Paradox is impossible in the future as it is compensated for as being one of the possible futures.

When you return to your own time frame you are still going to be prevented from acting on any information that you may have gained from the future as any actions on your part will affect the course of history. In the movie Back to the Future II, Biff's actions would have affected the course of history to a point that the stats book that he had would rapidly (almost instantly) become useless! The Hill Valley that Marty bought the book in would be radically different due to the changes caused by Biff in the past. Marty would not have been able to buy the book as sthe shop was on the town square which was torn down to make the casino. History again is self correcting.

I know there are probably flaws and holes in my explanation but I hope this has proved to be of some use. Let me know what you think.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:23 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Stay with me on this cause the olny part you lost me was when you tried to tell me about going into the future when you know you were dying....

Okay leggy has cancer, he is a father of three. His son plans to get married in 1.5 years.. The doctors told me that i have 1 year to live. (the doctors have always been 100 percent correct.) So leggy gets in his time machine and jumps to the future to see his son be married. 1.5 years later (in leggys sons life.lets call him cocles) cocles has his tux on and is ready to marry pixie. it has only been half a year since he lost his totally cool, and smart, and God like father... But yet at his wedding there is his dad standing there in a rented tux ready to watch his son be married.

that would be wierd. especially if leggy never told his odd son cocles that he was travling through time to catch the wedding. nor did he tell him that he had a great time at the wedding to come.

In theory one could always live in the future if they had a time machine... lets say i live a week in 2001 next week i will be back in 2002 and next week in 2003 I could always( in everyone elses perspective) be around for only a week out of the year.

I am not sure if i had a point or not... other than it would screw with peoples head to think you are dead but yet you show up every year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:44 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I love you, dad. Sad
USA jk2silly
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:29 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Legolas wrote:

that would be wierd. especially if leggy never told his odd son cocles that he was travling through time to catch the wedding. nor did he tell him that he had a great time at the wedding to come.


There is nothing wierd about that Lego. Other than the fact that your son is older than you but we will let that slide since you do have a time machine. Smile There is nothing wrong with the situation that you described. If you left for the future to see Cocles wedding and he remembered that you had already died then if you go back to the past/present you can fufill the version of history that Cocles knows. If you were to stay in the future then you would die in 18 months just as you were told and all knowledge of that alternate past would be erased from Cocles mind as it never happened.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:23 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Bah.

I was hoping that this thread would just die on it's own, but...

The multiuniverse theory is bunk---to account for every "alternative" universe you need an infinite number of universes to reprsent every possible outcome, requiring an infinite amount of energy. Ain't going to happen. Therefore time travel back in time is impossible because you can't violate causality so as to create a space-time paradox. (People always try to get around a paradox with the alternative universe theory.) All of this "time travel to the future and back" talk is impossible. IF you could travel to the future, you'd never be able to go back again.

Time travel to the future I believe is bunk as well. How can you get to the future if it hasn't been written yet? Free will would go out the window since everything would have to be absolutely locked in throughout time for you to even "know" that your son is still even alive 2 years from now. Which means that none of our actions matter anyway, because no matter how I choose to act, I was "fated" to do so because all of history, and future history, is already in place. =P

Oh, and faster than light travel is and will always be impossible. The theory of relativity shows that an infinite amount of energy is required to get a particle with a finitie mass up to the speed of light...that's why photons have no mass, and why relativistic experiments can only ever get their particals up to some fraction of the speed of light, say 0.999c.

Sorry for going postal, but pseudo-science annoys me to no end. =P =P

Last edited by Yvond on Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:45 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


USA Obi-son VIP (subscribed member)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:56 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


ah but, you can go back an edit a post. there for changing the out come of that post.Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:42 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I stand corrected i am no longer the supernerd. Yvond has come! Smile All Hail the king of SCIENCE!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:53 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


First you tell us only nerds can reply and then you make fun of me for providing a serious post? Rolling Eyes

Nice maturity.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:22 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Grow up you baby, it was a joke... I started this thread after all the talk in the forums about it.. Smile It just some how turned into a serious post when jk got here along with your second post... Notice how I never finsished mine and even made cocles my odd son Wink Jeesh, nice ability to take a joke Wink

You just thought i was being mean because you were arguing faith in the chat. Smile Lighten up "buddy boy" Laughing
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