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Super Size Me! (And Michael Moore)
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How many times per week do you eat fast food?
Never! I don't put that crap in my body!
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Once or twice per week
55%
 55%  [ 10 ]
Three or four times per week
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Daily or more
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 18

Author Message
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:28 pm   Post subject: Super Size Me! (And Michael Moore) Reply with quote


Ok, I just saw Super Size Me and it definitely made me feel like not eating at McDonalds ever again. But I'm curious: how often do Streaming Soundtracks listeners eat fast food? Hence, this poll.

By the way, people... the word is out that Michael Moore's new film is a must see... but I'd say the Super Size Me is actually a better documentary than Bowling for Columbine was (somehow it seems less manipulative yet still convincing).
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:48 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Well, I went for once or twice a week, although it's more like once a fortnight.

How often would I like to eat takeaway? My answer would probably then be nightly!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:23 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Some of you guys can be such peons sometimes.

That's all I'll say.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:41 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I miss my option: a couple of times a year.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:53 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Cocles wrote:
Some of you guys can be such peons sometimes.

That's all I'll say.


lol... oh come on Cocles, join the debate. It's all in good fun!

Sure, documentaries are manipulative. They have an agenda to push and most of us understand that. Did I enjoy seeing Super Size Me push its agenda? Definitely. Did I agree with every bit of its argument? Most definitely not. As it happens, I personally think the biggest problem with the obesity epidemic is not the fast food but the lack of physical fitness. And I think that Super Size Me cleverly manuevered away from that angle to push the fast food aspect.

But on the whole, it still had impact. And impact is entertaining.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:07 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Cocles just doesn't want to admit that he is a 300 pounds dude who lives with his parents and eats breakfast, lunch and dinner at the McDonalds around the corner Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:38 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


lol... nicely done, Cal.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:16 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Arrow a few times a year. (so i voted never Rolling Eyes )
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:20 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Hurr78 wrote:
Cocles wrote:
Some of you guys can be such peons sometimes.

That's all I'll say.


lol... oh come on Cocles, join the debate. It's all in good fun!


If you say so.

Quote:
Sure, documentaries are manipulative. They have an agenda to push and most of us understand that.


Most people understand that? ...That is one of the most naive statements I've heard in a long time.

Quote:
Did I enjoy seeing Super Size Me push its agenda? Definitely.


Whatever floats your boat.

Quote:
Did I agree with every bit of its argument? Most definitely not. As it happens, I personally think the biggest problem with the obesity epidemic is not the fast food but the lack of physical fitness.


Good for you.

Quote:
And I think that Super Size Me cleverly manuevered away from that angle to push the fast food aspect.


If you think that's clever you're easily impressed.

Quote:
But on the whole, it still had impact. And impact is entertaining.


Impact? "Schindler's List" had impact. Not only are you easily impressed but you're also easily entertained. I personally find it sickening that you come on here and begin spouting praise for Michael Moore. It's not so much that I dislike Michael Moore as much as it's that I think people who listen to that guy should be sterilized and sent off somewhere where I don't have to see or listen to them. The man twists the truth and manipulates with such blatancy, that it actually manages to sadden me whenever I see yet another person falling for it. Anyone with an IQ of a walnut should be able to see and understand his tactics, yet whenever he's mentioned I find myself arguing with another fool who sings to me about, "What a wonderful man Michael Moore is because he truly cares about the people!" Are people really that dumb and easily led? Absolutely. He's the flavor of the week, and I look forward to when this Michael Moore fad is finally over.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:21 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Ah, Cocles... sometimes I think that your fantastically acerbic rants are the real reason why these forums are popular. And thanks for joining the debate.

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
Sure, documentaries are manipulative. They have an agenda to push and most of us understand that.


Most people understand that? ...That is one of the most naive statements I've heard in a long time.


Ok, granted. "Most" should probably be revised to "some."

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
And I think that Super Size Me cleverly manuevered away from that angle to push the fast food aspect.


If you think that's clever you're easily impressed.


Well... ok. I guess I'm easily impressed.

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
But on the whole, it still had impact. And impact is entertaining.


Impact? "Schindler's List" had impact.


You'll get no argument from me on that.

Cocles wrote:

Not only are you easily impressed but you're also easily entertained.


If you say so.

Cocles wrote:
I personally find it sickening that you come on here and begin spouting praise for Michael Moore. It's not so much that I dislike Michael Moore as much as it's that I think people who listen to that guy should be sterilized and sent off somewhere where I don't have to see or listen to them. The man twists the truth and manipulates with such blatancy, that it actually manages to sadden me whenever I see yet another person falling for it.


Now here you're confusing being entertained with being converted. I entirely agree that Moore is manipulative. See my post at http://www.streamingsoundtracks.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1688&start=15 and you'll see me voicing that opinion. I believe I called him a blowhard. It's not a contradiction... I enjoy watching his movies, yet I don't really agree with his opinions.

Cocles wrote:

Anyone with an IQ of a walnut should be able to see and understand his tactics, yet whenever he's mentioned I find myself arguing with another fool who sings to me about, "What a wonderful man Michael Moore is because he truly cares about the people!"


Now that's not very kind, Cocles. And after I went to so much effort moving up to walnut from the IQ of a peanut. And I don't recall ever saying anything like that about Michael Moore. You seem to be putting words in my mouth.

Cocles wrote:

Are people really that dumb and easily led? Absolutely.


I can't argue with you there... although I'd say that Michael Moore certainly doesn't have a monopoly on that particular trick. The market provides a con man any time a sucker presents himself.

Cocles wrote:

He's the flavor of the week, and I look forward to when this Michael Moore fad is finally over.


Well, the two of you clearly don't agree on very much. Oh well. The world is full of people we don't always agree with.

Now, I'm curious... do you just hate documentaries in general or only those that present opinions that you disagree with? Because nobody is stopping you from making one about how great fast food is.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:59 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Hurr78 wrote:
Ah, Cocles... sometimes I think that your fantastically acerbic rants are the real reason why these forums are popular. And thanks for joining the debate.


Acerbic? There's a new one.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
Sure, documentaries are manipulative. They have an agenda to push and most of us understand that.


Most people understand that? ...That is one of the most naive statements I've heard in a long time.


Ok, granted. "Most" should probably be revised to "some."


"Some" is still too optimistic. I'd say a "rare few", maybe even "a handful" if I was feeling optimistic myself.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
And I think that Super Size Me cleverly manuevered away from that angle to push the fast food aspect.


If you think that's clever you're easily impressed.


Well... ok. I guess I'm easily impressed.

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
But on the whole, it still had impact. And impact is entertaining.


Impact? "Schindler's List" had impact.


You'll get no argument from me on that.

Cocles wrote:

Not only are you easily impressed but you're also easily entertained.


If you say so.


And I do say so.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:
I personally find it sickening that you come on here and begin spouting praise for Michael Moore. It's not so much that I dislike Michael Moore as much as it's that I think people who listen to that guy should be sterilized and sent off somewhere where I don't have to see or listen to them. The man twists the truth and manipulates with such blatancy, that it actually manages to sadden me whenever I see yet another person falling for it.


Now here you're confusing being entertained with being converted. I entirely agree that Moore is manipulative. See my post at http://www.streamingsoundtracks.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1688&start=15 and you'll see me voicing that opinion.


I don't see you voicing any opinion at all about Michael Moore in that thread.

I do, however, see Legolas mentioning Mandy Moore. Perhaps you should actually check your threads before you post them. Or were you just hoping we'd take your word for it and not actually click that link?

Quote:
I believe I called him a blowhard. It's not a contradiction... I enjoy watching his movies, yet I don't really agree with his opinions.


The fact is, you think Michael Moore makes "good" documentaries. Which is sad. Your defense is to say they're entertaining. But just because something is entertaining does not make it good. Perhaps you find them fun to watch, but in the world of documentaries they're the bastard children of tabloid journalism and propaganda.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

Anyone with an IQ of a walnut should be able to see and understand his tactics, yet whenever he's mentioned I find myself arguing with another fool who sings to me about, "What a wonderful man Michael Moore is because he truly cares about the people!"


Now that's not very kind, Cocles. And after I went to so much effort moving up to walnut from the IQ of a peanut. And I don't recall ever saying anything like that about Michael Moore. You seem to be putting words in my mouth.


Do us both a favor and read over what I said again. Now tell me where I said "YOU" said that.

Is it honestly that hard for you to distinguish between when I'm referring to you and referring to people in general?

Seems you're putting words in my mouth by saying I'm putting words in your mouth. You like how that works? Wink

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

Are people really that dumb and easily led? Absolutely.


I can't argue with you there... although I'd say that Michael Moore certainly doesn't have a monopoly on that particular trick. The market provides a con man any time a sucker presents himself.


Perhaps you should have gone back and edited this part of your post after you saw me refer to Moore as a "fad" and the "flavor of the week" in my next paragraph.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

He's the flavor of the week, and I look forward to when this Michael Moore fad is finally over.


Well, the two of you clearly don't agree on very much. Oh well. The world is full of people we don't always agree with.


My problem, is not with Moore's views.
My problem, is not even entirely with how he presents those views.

My problem is with the many members of his audience who hang on his every word and think he is a saint.
(And no Hurr, I'm not specifically referring to you.)

Quote:

Now, I'm curious... do you just hate documentaries in general or only those that present opinions that you disagree with?


Nice Hurr. You see kids, what Hurr's trying to do here is make me look irrational by over generalizing my statement.

Hurr, as far as you know I only dislike "Bowling for Columbine". How this led to me possibly hating "all documentaries" is beyond me.

Quote:
Because nobody is stopping you from making one about how great fast food is.


When did I say I didn't like "Super Size Me"? The next time you accuse me of putting words in your mouth, don't turn around and do the same thing to me.... twice.

If you want my opinion on that documentary, here it goes.

Ready?

I'll say it one word:

"DUHHHH!"

What? Fast food is fattening!? NO! Never!
What? Too much of something is bad for you? What!? Never!

News flash. Consuming too much of ANYTHING is bad for you.

His documentary was fun, and even interesting, but it's ridiculous listening to all these people who just saw it, spouting off as if they just realized that eating fast food a lot will make you fat. (Oh, and once again Hurr, I'm speaking about people in general there, and not specifically you.)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:13 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Cocles wrote:

Acerbic? There's a new one.


Just thought I'd throw in something new for ya there. Smile

Cocles wrote:

Quote:

Now here you're confusing being entertained with being converted. I entirely agree that Moore is manipulative. See my post at http://www.streamingsoundtracks.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1688&start=15 and you'll see me voicing that opinion.


I don't see you voicing any opinion at all about Michael Moore in that thread.

I do, however, see Legolas mentioning Mandy Moore. Perhaps you should actually check your threads before you post them. Or were you just hoping we'd take your word for it and not actually click that link?


Yes, that's the correct link. See the 2nd last post, bottom of the page.

Cocles wrote:

The fact is, you think Michael Moore makes "good" documentaries. Which is sad. Your defense is to say they're entertaining. But just because something is entertaining does not make it good. Perhaps you find them fun to watch, but in the world of documentaries they're the bastard children of tabloid journalism and propaganda.


I still say they're entertaining without actually being "good" documentaries. Just as an example, the whole sequence in Bowling for Columbine where he goes to Canada and demonstrates that everyone apparently lives with their doors unlocked is blatantly untrue. But knowing that makes it a heck of a lot funnier that it would be otherwise. I'll even grant you that it's probably socially irresponsible for him to pull stuff like that. But I somehow doubt that he really convinced many people to change their pre-existing views on anything.

Cocles wrote:

Is it honestly that hard for you to distinguish between when I'm referring to you and referring to people in general?

Seems you're putting words in my mouth by saying I'm putting words in your mouth. You like how that works? Wink


Yep. I like how that works. You see, when you throw comments in the general direction of a person, you probably shouldn't be surprised if they think you're at least partially referring to them. You began by directly speaking about me by saying that you "personally find it sickening that (I) come on here and begin spouting praise for Michael Moore." Then you start talking more generally about people, but one could quite easily forgive me for thinking that you're also still talking about me.

Cocles wrote:

My problem, is not with Moore's views.
My problem, is not even entirely with how he presents those views.

My problem is with the many members of his audience who hang on his every word and think he is a saint.
(And no Hurr, I'm not specifically referring to you.)


Well, ok. I guess we don't really have a problem on this issue after all. Smile

Cocles wrote:
Quote:

Now, I'm curious... do you just hate documentaries in general or only those that present opinions that you disagree with?


Nice Hurr. You see kids, what Hurr's trying to do here is make me look irrational by over generalizing my statement.

Hurr, as far as you know I only dislike "Bowling for Columbine". How this led to me possibly hating "all documentaries" is beyond me.


Actually, it also initially appeared as though you don't like Super Size Me. But you're right, it is an unfair generalization.

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
Because nobody is stopping you from making one about how great fast food is.


When did I say I didn't like "Super Size Me"? The next time you accuse me of putting words in your mouth, don't turn around and do the same thing to me.... twice.


Well, again, you didn't explicitly say so, but we could all be forgiven for forming that impression when you made the initial peon remark.

Cocles wrote:

If you want my opinion on that documentary, here it goes.

Ready?

I'll say it one word:

"DUHHHH!"

What? Fast food is fattening!? NO! Never!
What? Too much of something is bad for you? What!? Never!

News flash. Consuming too much of ANYTHING is bad for you.


I agree wholeheartedly. Although it was quite interesting how his physicians were surprised at how fast he went downhill. It kind of hints at the need for more (and more serious) study of the issue.

Quote:

His documentary was fun, and even interesting, but it's ridiculous listening to all these people who just saw it, spouting off as if they just realized that eating fast food a lot will make you fat. (Oh, and once again Hurr, I'm speaking about people in general there, and not specifically you.)


Oh, you thought it was "fun" and "even interesting?" Well, that's what I thought too! Smile And I didn't just realize that eating fast food will make you fat. So why are we even having this debate?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:00 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Hurr78 wrote:
Cocles wrote:

Acerbic? There's a new one.


Just thought I'd throw in something new for ya there. Smile


Thanks.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

Quote:

Now here you're confusing being entertained with being converted. I entirely agree that Moore is manipulative. See my post at http://www.streamingsoundtracks.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1688&start=15 and you'll see me voicing that opinion.


I don't see you voicing any opinion at all about Michael Moore in that thread.

I do, however, see Legolas mentioning Mandy Moore. Perhaps you should actually check your threads before you post them. Or were you just hoping we'd take your word for it and not actually click that link?


Yes, that's the correct link. See the 2nd last post, bottom of the page.


Oh, there it is. Guess I was momentarily blind. Even did a ctrl+F for Moore.... weird.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

The fact is, you think Michael Moore makes "good" documentaries. Which is sad. Your defense is to say they're entertaining. But just because something is entertaining does not make it good. Perhaps you find them fun to watch, but in the world of documentaries they're the bastard children of tabloid journalism and propaganda.


I still say they're entertaining without actually being "good" documentaries. Just as an example, the whole sequence in Bowling for Columbine where he goes to Canada and demonstrates that everyone apparently lives with their doors unlocked is blatantly untrue. But knowing that makes it a heck of a lot funnier that it would be otherwise. I'll even grant you that it's probably socially irresponsible for him to pull stuff like that. But I somehow doubt that he really convinced many people to change their pre-existing views on anything.


Once we went into detail it became quickly evident that you weren't the usual Michael Moore sheep.

That being said, I still find it weird that you're so gosh darn excited about his films coming out. Sort of like seeing someone excited about a con-man coming to town.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

Is it honestly that hard for you to distinguish between when I'm referring to you and referring to people in general?

Seems you're putting words in my mouth by saying I'm putting words in your mouth. You like how that works? Wink


Yep. I like how that works. You see, when you throw comments in the general direction of a person, you probably shouldn't be surprised if they think you're at least partially referring to them. You began by directly speaking about me by saying that you "personally find it sickening that (I) come on here and begin spouting praise for Michael Moore." Then you start talking more generally about people, but one could quite easily forgive me for thinking that you're also still talking about me.


Tell yeh what, if I refer to "people" doing something, and you haven't done whatever it is I say they're doing, then you're probably not one of them.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

My problem, is not with Moore's views.
My problem, is not even entirely with how he presents those views.

My problem is with the many members of his audience who hang on his every word and think he is a saint.
(And no Hurr, I'm not specifically referring to you.)


Well, ok. I guess we don't really have a problem on this issue after all. Smile


Well good. Still don't know why you're so excited about his films though. Were you this excited the first time you got to see "Triumph of the Will"?

Quote:

Cocles wrote:
Quote:

Now, I'm curious... do you just hate documentaries in general or only those that present opinions that you disagree with?


Nice Hurr. You see kids, what Hurr's trying to do here is make me look irrational by over generalizing my statement.

Hurr, as far as you know I only dislike "Bowling for Columbine". How this led to me possibly hating "all documentaries" is beyond me.


Actually, it also initially appeared as though you don't like Super Size Me. But you're right, it is an unfair generalization.


Yeah it was... it even made me cry a little and hide under my desk.

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

Quote:
Because nobody is stopping you from making one about how great fast food is.


When did I say I didn't like "Super Size Me"? The next time you accuse me of putting words in your mouth, don't turn around and do the same thing to me.... twice.


Well, again, you didn't explicitly say so, but we could all be forgiven for forming that impression when you made the initial peon remark.


Now you're referring to yourself as "we"? Who are you? Queen Elizabeth?

Quote:

Cocles wrote:

If you want my opinion on that documentary, here it goes.

Ready?

I'll say it one word:

"DUHHHH!"

What? Fast food is fattening!? NO! Never!
What? Too much of something is bad for you? What!? Never!

News flash. Consuming too much of ANYTHING is bad for you.


I agree wholeheartedly. Although it was quite interesting how his physicians were surprised at how fast he went downhill. It kind of hints at the need for more (and more serious) study of the issue.


Like I said. It's the imbecilic audience afterwards that bugs me.

Quote:

Quote:

His documentary was fun, and even interesting, but it's ridiculous listening to all these people who just saw it, spouting off as if they just realized that eating fast food a lot will make you fat. (Oh, and once again Hurr, I'm speaking about people in general there, and not specifically you.)


Oh, you thought it was "fun" and "even interesting?" Well, that's what I thought too! Smile And I didn't just realize that eating fast food will make you fat. So why are we even having this debate?


Because you made yourself appear for moment like a member of the general mooing public who enjoy films like this. And also because of statements like this:

Hurr78 wrote:
But I somehow doubt that he really convinced many people to change their pre-existing views on anything.


This simple sentence explains a lot.

Personally, I think you're able to enjoy these movies with such zeal (even though you see right through them), because you're naive to the amount of damage they do. You think it's all good silly fun.

Perhaps people where you are aren't so easily duped. But where I am, I find myself surrounded by people who worship this guy and hang on his every word. They see him as a veritable messiah and a fighter for the people. Hell, it was the people surrounding me who gave Farenheit 9/11 the Palm D'Or. Do you see where I'm coming from, now? Perhaps where you live it's seen as just another stupid movie, but where I am it's seen as a sermon.

Perhaps where you are, people all laugh at "Super Size Me", but where I am, people are suddenly freaking ou that, "Oh my gosh! Fast food is fattening!?"

For me these films are like a kid outside my house disturbing a hornets' nest. Sure it's "fun" watching him through the window, but it sucks the second I step outside and start having to dodge all the bugs he's stirred up.

The kid is a nuissance, and the bugs are stupid for letting themselves be riled.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:10 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Cocles wrote:
Once we went into detail it became quickly evident that you weren't the usual Michael Moore sheep.

That being said, I still find it weird that you're so gosh darn excited about his films coming out. Sort of like seeing someone excited about a con-man coming to town.


lol... yeah, I suppose that is a bit wierd.

Cocles wrote:

Tell yeh what, if I refer to "people" doing something, and you haven't done whatever it is I say they're doing, then you're probably not one of them.


ok. Deal.

Cocles wrote:
Well good. Still don't know why you're so excited about his films though. Were you this excited the first time you got to see "Triumph of the Will"?


Yes. Although that was because I loved my film class. I definitely didn't agree with the message of the film.

Cocles wrote:
Yeah it was... it even made me cry a little and hide under my desk.


Then I certainly offer an apology.

Cocles wrote:
Now you're referring to yourself as "we"? Who are you? Queen Elizabeth?


Er... whoops, I gave myself away. It must have been all these pressures about the behaviour of Prince Charles...

Cocles wrote:
Personally, I think you're able to enjoy these movies with such zeal (even though you see right through them), because you're naive to the amount of damage they do. You think it's all good silly fun.

Perhaps people where you are aren't so easily duped. But where I am, I find myself surrounded by people who worship this guy and hang on his every word. They see him as a veritable messiah and a fighter for the people. Hell, it was the people surrounding me who gave Farenheit 9/11 the Palm D'Or. Do you see where I'm coming from, now? Perhaps where you live it's seen as just another stupid movie, but where I am it's seen as a sermon.


Hmm, now this statement gives me a good idea of where you're coming from. The people I know in this town said things like "one person isn't a statistically significant sample" and "he altered two key variables at the same time (his level of physical activity and his diet), making his "study" scientifically invalid."

I guess I hadn't really thought that much about your environment. I agree... for whatever reason Hollywood seems to be lining up to fight over who gets the next turn to flatter him and to suck up to him. And I suppose that would probably get annoying.

Cocles wrote:
Perhaps where you are, people all laugh at "Super Size Me", but where I am, people are suddenly freaking ou that, "Oh my gosh! Fast food is fattening!?"


Hmm. Yeah, people around here are probably more caustic and skeptical.

Cocles wrote:
For me these films are like a kid outside my house disturbing a hornets' nest. Sure it's "fun" watching him through the window, but it sucks the second I step outside and start having to dodge all the bugs he's stirred up.

The kid is a nuissance, and the bugs are stupid for letting themselves be riled.


I see your point. Kind of like having to boot missionaries off the front porch, eh?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:48 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Should I even mention that Morgan Spurlock was the one who made Super Size Me? He was probably inspired by Moore's attention-seeking style.

Moore's stuff is entertainment, which I enjoy, but people who buy into it completely need some media education.

I eat fast food about twice a month- it's a treat to get a nice burger.
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