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 Tron
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Dec 13, 2003
Member#: 4034
Posts: 319
Location: Belgium
   
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 Posted:
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:52 am Post subject: |
 
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ok, that's the spirit!  Not too serious! I don't mean that you got everything wrong, but you need to be more of a critic, sceptic, even about your own sources and viewpoints.
PS; sorry if my English is getting offtrack again.  |
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 Legolas
Commander
Joined: Aug 08, 2002
Member#: 178
Posts: 857
Location: Drunkest state in USA
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Posted:
Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Keep it mind plastic comes from oil too so use paper. 
Oh and the U.S. caray, Making huge steps in reducing its oil need. I would expect china to pass us in consumption, and when you compare a countries consumption keep in mind the size and population v.s. the other countries.  |
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CaptainAdam
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Member#: 7155
Posts: 57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Tron, agreed, scepticism, and being a critic is very important indeed, in this confusing world.
It's just that sometimes one thinks that the source of a person who one trusts ,must be precise, thus one does not look after the stuff. In the oil business we don't know anything for sure really.
Eventually we will switch to hydrogen, that is for sure.
Adam
_________________
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Legolas
Commander
Joined: Aug 08, 2002
Member#: 178
Posts: 857
Location: Drunkest state in USA
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Posted:
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say hydrogen is for sure ...
BTW, Did any of you know that the outer crust of the moon containes something like helieum 3... if you bust up the crust(top three feet) it will give off a gas that can be burned for fuel... I saw an article on it a while back... Some UW Madison group did a study on it... Its interesting. |
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CaptainAdam
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Member#: 7155
Posts: 57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yea, i heard about that, great fusion fuel too, not that we have a functional fusion reactor of any sort (here i mean a reactor that could be used for large scale power generation economically)....
Only problem is , how to transport it here. Rockets are extremely expensive, and eat a lot of fuel themselves. Maybe we could burn it there, convert it into microwave energy and trasmit it down to Earth....a bit complicated i believe  .
Hydrogen is pretty sure, we have fuel cells, and hydrogen also can be used in internal combustion engines. Prob. is that hydrogen is not a source of energy it just stores it, it must be extracted from water via electrolysis (hydrogen can also be extracted from natural gas, but that is limited), and ofcourse that takes up more energy than what we get when burning that hydrogen.
So extracting hydrogen should be done with renewable sources of energy, like wind,water, or solar, or biomass.
I vote for local energy sources, (wind turbines, solar panels), and not a centralised system. That wouldn't work with current renewables anyway, they take up too much space on the large scale.
Oh yea, and we can also use bio-diesel.
Adam
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Tron
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Dec 13, 2003
Member#: 4034
Posts: 319
Location: Belgium
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Posted:
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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About the fusion reactor, if anybody is interested.
There exists no functional fusion reactor what so ever on this planet.It is still a concept. At the moment the reactor runs a few sec before meltdown. This is because of the immense heat wich would melt virtually anyything. Hydrogen has to be heated to a million degrees, before it becomes plasm, a superconducting state of H. The only solution would be that the hydrogen in suspended in the known concept of a fusion reactor.
At the moment the US, western Europe en Japan have joined forces in what has become the second most expensive science project ever(After the ISS) to built a working, economical interesting reactor.
Results are not expected before 2025. But for now they are still argueing wether it should be built in France or Japan. 
But if it is ready, it would be a major solution to the energy problem.
Last edited by Tron on Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hurr78
Commander
Joined: Feb 12, 2004
Member#: 5061
Posts: 739
Location: Toronto
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Posted:
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the fusion reactor would solve many of our problems if we could just build one that works.
In the meantime, nobody here seems to aware of the large solid methane deposits that have been found off the coast of British Columbia and Florida. Geologists estimate that there could be enough there to bolster North American energy supplies for decades. |
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graywolf
Commander
Joined: Aug 06, 2003
Member#: 2693
Posts: 527
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Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Why do I feel like I wandered into the wrong classroom ....
_________________
Actually believes Tron is a movie about mans relationship with God. |
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CaptainAdam
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Member#: 7155
Posts: 57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted:
Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Well, okay, lemme clarify. I'm kinda into the fusion business.
The several million Kelvin temperature is just a cool sounding phrase, for the public. The electrons that hit your television tube's screen are pretty "hot".
The tokamak deisgn has failed. They do it the hard way..confine plasma with extreme magnetic fields , and then heat the plasma with electrostatic discharges, or with RF.
Those magnets consume massive amounts of energy. It's a beautiful beast but has little use. It's a kind of trend among scientists nowdays..
I can tell you about a fusion reactor that can sustain fusion for as long as you want..though VERY far from breakeven. It's called the fusor. It was invented in the nineteen fifties by Philo T. Farnsworth. They achieved quite high neutron counts (neutrons are released when fusion occurs), but funding was cut in the sixties (not really sure why).
The device itself is extremely simple in design, i'm building one right now...don't think that fusion is the game of the big boys..they just want you to think that.
Here is a link:
http://www.fusor.net
See it for yourself. If ya don't believe me...
Adam
Ps.: Sorry about drifting away "slightly".
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Caliburn
Guest
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Posted:
Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| graywolf wrote: |
| Why do I feel like I wandered into the wrong classroom .... |
Well it beats your marketing stuff lol! |
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Caray
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Oct 17, 2002
Member#: 243
Posts: 408
Location: France
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Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Legolas wrote: |
| Oh and the U.S. caray, Making huge steps in reducing its oil need. I would expect china to pass us in consumption, and when you compare a countries consumption keep in mind the size and population v.s. the other countries. |
I do, and per person it is still the biggest consummer. But my question is serious, about what the US is doing.
_________________
My reality cheque bounced |
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Tron
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Dec 13, 2003
Member#: 4034
Posts: 319
Location: Belgium
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Posted:
Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:40 am Post subject: |
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*easy way out, you're difficult Adam *
Last edited by Tron on Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:25 am; edited 3 times in total |
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CaptainAdam
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Member#: 7155
Posts: 57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted:
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Harumph...
Tron, you did not look at the site...
And did not understand my post...
I said "VERY far from breakeven". What does that mean to you?
Pls show a little more respect to Mr. Farnsworth, he invented the CTR (cathode ray tube) back then for televisions, infact he inveted the electronic TV.
Just because the design is simple, does not mean that scaling up something is simple. The fusor does better on a desktop than a tokamak that takes up a whole building.
The fusor has nothing to do with the Oppenheimer Philips effect, where there is no fusion, but neutrons are stripped off. OP starts at around 1 MeV (hardly detectable there), while no fusor has ever been above 100 keV, and there is no other effect besides fusion which would result in 10e6, or 10e7 n/sec (among amateurs), or 10e9 n/sec (neutrons per second) which was achieved by the Farnsworth team. I would not account that for an "occasinal neutron splitting off"....anybody who does is utterly stupid...
I know Craig Wallace, he is a member of the fusor forum, i witnessed the effort that lead to the succesfull replication of the Hirsch-Meeks type spherical enbodiment of the Farnsworth fusor.
I strongly suggest that you visit http://www.fusor.net, before telling me such things.
This is not my invention, not "my machine" i'm just replicating it and then trying my own ideas. I never said it will generate useful electrical power, but still, it does better than any tokamak, compared to its size.
Ofcourse the fusor is considered a very good neutron source, and a demonstration that "fusion is easy". It might never generate useful power, but imagine how far the tokamak is from that...
READ the website (fusor.net), please...this is like the FAQ here...if ya dont read it everybody will know.
Adam
_________________
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Tron
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Dec 13, 2003
Member#: 4034
Posts: 319
Location: Belgium
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Posted:
Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:48 am Post subject: |
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I've just read it with great interest, but how is what they say any diffenrent from what I say? i may not know much about that matter, but i'm well educated about matter itself. |
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Legolas
Commander
Joined: Aug 08, 2002
Member#: 178
Posts: 857
Location: Drunkest state in USA
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Posted:
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:58 am Post subject: |
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To caray... I work in the transportation industry. Possibly even own the place I am working at. We run about 40 semi's that haul heavy over sized equipment... We as a company are constantly looking for ways to cut back on diesel fuel. In may we were paying about 9 grand a day to keep our trucks moving.
America has actually started to really look into ways to cut down on our oil. I think 9/11 was a kick in the ass for us too, we really want to get away from the middle east.
I could look up all over on the net and give you links to articles where it shows u.s. car company's, research that is being funded and new studies that are going into practice. But that you can do yourself so insted I'll let you know something I see personally.
One of my company's biggest clients is a san diego based corporation called Solar Turbines. They are a division of Catipiller, and they make huge turbine engines that are sent all over the world. They are a leading company and they are really starting to make more energy efficeint turbines. Another company we do a lot for is called GE WIND. formally Enron Wind. They are making and putting up tons and tons of wind fields all over the U.S. I think They may have broke ground but if not they plan to have a huge field of the north eastern coast. That means the base will be under water and just the top of the wind turbine will be above the sea. (sounds cool to me.) But this will be the worlds largest type of feild ever done.
Also another problem the US has is a thing called Urban Sprawl. Thats when these worthless subdivision keep expanded outside the city... This forces people living there to drive a long ass way into work. Well they are trying to save the land and the cities by curbing urban sprawl, making better places to live with in the city. This saves land and road development and the need for people to travel...
You are from france, and its opposite there. Most people prefer to live in the cities. but for a while here most people wanted to have their own peice of land, no matter how small and unoriginal it is.
The U.S. is changing. lots of little things will help us out greatly. And thats what it is doing. Let me know if that helps CARAY. |
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