Long non-VIP request times

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject:

Nope this is not unfair. VIPs contribute to the site by becoming a l365 member. So it is a mutual relationship, give and take on both sides. So your two groups are not the same. We give one group more. Why, because we asked them to pay money for a 3rd party service. We have to reward them for that.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject:

Nope this is not unfair. VIPs contribute to the site by becoming a l365 member. So it is a mutual relationship, give and take on both sides. So your two groups are not the same. We give one group more. Why, because we asked them to pay money for a 3rd party service. We have to reward them for that.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:39 pm Post subject:

Only if you felt entitled to it.

And that's really what any argument in favor of better non-vip request times will come back to.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:36 am Post subject:

You are right Cal! That is why VIPs "take music" from SST basket more frequently than non-VIPs (and have few other privileges: no ads, no full stream etc).
And it is OK! I fully support it.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:51 am Post subject:

Still using Cal's example of children: If you said that all children can take candies for free I think all of them can feel entitled to it.

Non-VIPs are also part of a community here and have some rights granted before by JERIC's decision. So if you are stripping them of these (even a bit) they can feel like something has changed, and not in their favour.

Of course JERIC can shut the door at any moment saying "no more candies, good bye" but then probably you will have community no more. Wink

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:37 am Post subject:

Still using Cal's example of children: If you said that all children can take candies for free I think all of them can feel entitled to it.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:

I am afraid the situation you are talking about above is not a good example Cal. It is not suitable to the real situation at SST.

To make your story a bit more similar to the SST reality from my point of view I woud put it this way:

Lets say you put very big amount of candy for all the children for free everyday. But you ask them: It is free for everybody but please pay attention and don't take more than 25 kilograms a day in total.

Let us say that after a while you see that all the children together are taking away 30 kilograms of candies per day in total. And the other thing you see is that one (smaller) group of children that live close to your house and can visit you more often (let us call them "VIPs") take 20 kilograms from total of 30. The other (bigger in number) group of children that are from the whole city and go longer way to reach your house so they can use less of your candies ("non-VIPs") take 10 kilos.
So you make a decision: To keep amount of candies you give away at 25 kg per day, you let VIPs take 20 kilograms (no change for them) but you say that non-VIPs can take only 5 kgs per day (that means twice less than before). You are making only one group of children taking much less although both groups had their part in excessing a day limit you asked them to obey. And that is a bit unfair for me.

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:10 am Post subject:

Of course you are right Hurr. Jeric and admins have every right and it is not a public service.

But should VIPs and non-VIPs requests be in some way scaled back proportionally? This radio is not public service so there is no such obligation but I think it would be good for community if they could (not only because I'am non-VIP myself). At least as long as JERIC says that this radio station is free and non-VIPs can request (so as long as non VIPs are treated as part of community).

Last edited by molossus on Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:20 am Post subject:

I have been warned! Wink

I have nothing against being eaten up Smile

Especially after good discussion.
I'm happy we have Cocles' attention here.

Last edited by molossus on Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:13 am; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:12 am Post subject:

And what about contributing non-vip? Does it change anything? Wink

OK, I am getting away from main topic. Sorry!

Back on topic.
You are right Cocles that SST has no obligation to non-contributing non-vips. Frankly SST owes nothing to all listeners (vip members too). VIPs have agreement with live 365 (correct me if I'm wrong) so at any moment JERIC can shut SST down with no obligation to ex-listeners I suppose. Am I right or wrong?

So, don't VIPs have just the same declaration from JERIC as non VIPs. I mean that they have declaration they will be treated here this or that way. Of course VIPs are declared a bit more (because they are VIPs) but up-to-date both VIPs and non-VIPs are declared the right to listen to the music and to make requests. It is not obligation of SST - it is just declaration.

So what VIPs are paying here for today? For listening to the music? For the right to request? I don't think so. Listening to the music and requesting is provided for every registered member. This is what JERIC lets every member letting him to register with no extra requirements. And it is free (so money doesn't play a part here).

So for me both groups should be respected in some proportional way when it comes to listening to the music (e.g: quality of a stream) and requesting. Because they both are entitled to it free as long as JERIC doesn't change his mind that SST is for all willing listeners for free.

Since requesting is a right of every member of this community (by JERIC's decision of course), I think that all members can rightfully expect that changes in right of requesting will be reasonable and in some way proportional. At least as long as JERIC keeps SST a free radio and keeps requesting a part of SST.

That's why I can understand people who -like Rogue- were a bit frustrated by sudden rise in nonVIPs requesting times. Because, for a moment, it could have made an impression of narrowing nonVIPs rights as a "punishment" for long queue times. Times that were created as well from VIPs requests and nonVIPs requests. So (for a moment) it might have looked a bit unfair to nonVIPs.

So to sum it up: In legal terms JERIC and SST owes us nothing as well as we owe nothing to SST.
But as long as we try to be a community we should try to respect everyone: JERIC, Admins, Mods and both VIPs and nonVIPs. For example by not making sudden and large changes in mutual situation of VIPs and nonVIPs. Of course it is not obligation but for sure it is a good custom (habit? practice?) in every community. Of course you can run your radio with no respect for good habits and doing so you risk merely nothing (only that you will lose your listeners;)). But I'm sure JERIC cares for listeners of SST. So I'm sure that JERIC cares for reasonable requesting times. And the proof I give you for that is that now we have quite reasonable requesting times for both VIPs and nonVIPs.

But maybe I'm wrong. If so I would gladly read what is your point of view in this matter.

P.S.: Excuse me it is long Sad

English is not my native language so maybe I use too many words Wink

Thank you for your patience!

Last edited by molossus on Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:51 am Post subject:

I never stated that there was such a rule. I argued that there should be such a rule.