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Stop to long queues
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Czech Republic Raygi
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:15 pm   Post subject: Stop to long queues Reply with quote


I realized one fact. The longer the queue is, the longer tracks are requested because people think like: Hmm, 6 (12) hours to the next; this will be my only track, so let it be long! Or am I wrong?

My solution is to disable requesting of tracks over 3 minutes long in queues longer than 2,5 hours (or less?). I think that it wouldn't be so limiting since majority of tracks have this length.

Plus shorter tracks would be played a little more often.

What do you think?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:36 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Thanks for the input, Raygi.

We've had many discussions, both public and private, about this very issue over the years. I'm sure they will continue, and we'll add your vote into the mix next time it comes up.

jeff
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:26 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I think limiting non-VIP tracks to 4 minutes may do the trick and entice more people to become VIP. Your idea gave me that idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:05 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Why punish non-VIPs when both VIPs and non-VIPs are guilty of this behaviour? Why assume that non-VIPs have so much time and money on their hands but are too cheap to part with it? Not everyone can afford the cost and not everyone has the time to take advantage of the VIP features to make payment worthwhile. Now you are asking them to not only wait up to 6 hours, but when they can request it is for a track of less than 4 minutes. At what point do you make being a non-VIP no unattractive that rather than pay for VIP, people register but rarely if ever return. Why not just give non-VIPs listen-only access? It would be a lot simpler.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:41 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Punish is a pretty strong word to use. It could come to the point where non-VIPs can't request at all but I really want to give them a taste of our system and community first.
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Poland molossus VIP (subscribed member)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:03 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


JERIC wrote:
I think limiting non-VIP tracks to 4 minutes may do the trick and entice more people to become VIP.


My impression is that JERIC's idea could bring some number of new VIPs for SST but I don't think it would make queue shorter. And I feel it would hit non-VIPs too much.

For me it's quite obvious that number of requests in the queue from VIPs is - on almost every occasion - higher than number of requests from non-VIPS. So it's VIPs who generate lion's share of queue lenght in my opinion (BTW: number of VIPS is growing).
That's why I expect that limiting non-VIPs in right of requesting will not make queue lenght situation much better.

That couple of requests (or some minutes of queue lenght) that would dissapear from the queue after implementing JERIC's idea on nonVIPs, probably will be in the same time easily made up by VIPs. What confirms me in my expectation that queue lenght probably would not drop, is, for example, that many SSTers (especially VIPs) follow SST request netiquette and restrain themselves from requesting after queue hits some level of its lenght (so, in fact it's not a problem for VIPs to enqueue one or two requests more than usual). I don't think VIP change their ways after implementing new rules and just will execute their right to request a little bit more if they are confronted with - let's say - queue lenght under 2 hours.

What I want to say is I suspect that VIPs probably will keep restraining from further requesting at similar queue lenght level as they do now. And doing so, they easily will make up these minutes of queue lenght we gain on "punishing" nonVIPs.

Of course it's only my expectation and I can be wrong Wink

And even putting aside what I said above - limiting requests to short tracks sounds weird to me.
If you really want to cut the queue - raise request wait for VIPs and disable requests from nonVIPs (but I hope it won't happen, because nonVIPs are SSTers too)

I hope I put it clear enough for you to get my point (my english is not very fluent - sorry)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:29 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


The limiting of request lengths came up before, at least in chat. If you even limited it to under 7-8 minutes, you'd likely see some dramatic queue size decreases. Any time the queue gets above 2.5 hours, there is likely at least one 10 minute track in the queue, and probably more.

I'd suggest disabling requests over 7 minutes when the queue is over 2 hours long.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:56 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I suggest simply leaving everything exactly as it is.
It's mostly a "problem" for VIPs anyway. I don't think it matters so much for non-VIPs if the queue is 2 or even 3 hours long. They have to wait for 6 or 12 hours anyway if they want to get a second request in.
VIPS can have at least two requests in a 2:30h queue.
I personally think there's little to complain about.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:10 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Maybe the fact is that there are a lot of us, more every day, and there simply isn't enough time to hear what everyone would like to hear. Outside of twisting the space-time continuum, there may be nothing for it.

I could be really snarky and ask: Why is everyone here? To listen to quality (or less-quality, sometimes Wink ) music? Or just to make requests, treating this like a large, cumbersome jukebox? But those aren't fair questions, because for everyone, it's a little of both. Sure, we're here to listen to scores, especially ones we don't own or might never be able to find or purchase for ourselves. But we also love that we can make requests, share our tastes with others. It's a way to communicate, feel connected. We can listen to 80s synthesizer, relive our childhood and the heck with what anyone else thinks. This is all valid. But we have to share, and time ain't gettin' any longer.

So what can we do? I think cancelling requests for non-VIPs is a bit harsh. However, I have suggested in the past that requesting be a privilege for any member who has made any contribution since signing up. They may not be VIPs, but this would mean that anyone who wants to request would have to pony up at least $1 for the privilege. That would give them basic requesting at a nominal fee. Would that make this a for-profit station? Haven't thought that far.

Reducing the number of VIP requests may also be a good idea. Again, there are ever more of us, and we have to share. If that makes you change your mind about being a VIP, well, I'm not sure what to say to that.

Banning long tracks would be nice, if the queue is overlong. I don't know how hard this would be to implement. If requests came only with paid registration, there would be an excuse to mail the request netiquette to each new user, so they'd have less chance to ignore it. We could set up a monitoring system, so that people who consistently request long tracks would get scolded. They frequently get flamed on chat, if they're notorious enough.

But do we really want this to be a priority for the admins? I don't think so. We need to police ourselves. And maybe that means requesting a little less when it's very busy.

This was longer and more rambling than I thought it was going to be, and I'm not sure I said anything useful. Sorry about that, and thanks for listening.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:29 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Here is a statistic just for fun. SST served over 27,000 requests since beginning of 2007!

Thanks for your feedback everyone.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:48 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I think JERIC's solution is a pretty nice compromise, all things considered.

Let's put it all in perspective: how many stations allow anyone to request anything from such an immense playlist? Now, at SST (and all 24seven.fm stations!) anyone can, with free registration, 1. hear great music streamed at 64kbps, 2. make requests from a vast playlist of music, most of which is broadcast no where else, and 3. enjoy everything else the website has to offer.

All of that already makes SST a kick-@$$ place to be, if you think about it! So what if I have to wait 2-3 hours for my request to play, or can only get 1 request in per day at peak hours??

My only suggestion would be to raise the limit to maybe 7-8 minutes, like Grenadier alluded to, because there are a lot of highly sought tracks that are around 5 minutes long. (i.e. tracks that people may come to the site specifically to hear.)

Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:38 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


JERIC wrote:
SST served over 27,000 requests since beginning of 2007!


...and 7,000 of those were MINE!!! Cool

...just kidding...Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:01 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I don't know... I've been loving SST for months now and I have never said "I'm gonna post a 35 minute song because it's my only one." I would be willing to bet that most of the people on the site know they're going to have to wait for their request and will do so. I was excited when I became VIP and got to request after 30 minutes! Just be patient!! If you can't handle waiting, buy the album silly.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:43 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I like your philosophy weaponlordzero. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:33 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Why is this being discussed? Are we really complaining about music being longer than 5 minutes? Having to wait a long time to hear a request? I don't know about anyone else, but this is the only station I know of that has great quality soundtrack music on 24/7, lets joe newguy listen and request a song for free, and has great people dedicated to preserving the quality of SST all the time WITHOUT COMMERCIALS! I don't prefer being the bitter person, but there are a lot more important things out there to think about than this topic. In my eyes, this is not a problem that needs to be fixed. It's not even a problem. If I want to hear a particular song at a particular time, I buy the soundtrack. If I can't find it, then tough. Heck I hardly request songs nowadays, and yes part of that is because of the queue, but I don't come here to request, I come here to listen.

Lets not forget that this website is a freaking blessing for us soundtrack nuts and take it for granted. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Smile moving on...
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