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Feature request: Automatic track length limitation
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Automatic Track length limitation
Yes
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
No
85%
 85%  [ 17 ]
I don't care either way.
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 20

Author Message
USA Cyberbrain
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:13 pm   Post subject: Feature request: Automatic track length limitation Reply with quote


Hello,

SST has grown to the point where the queue is often long and requests are made by alot of people. It is not uncommon for the queue to be close to or over 3 hours long on an average day. And on some days people decide to fill up the queue with long requests just to disable the req timer or for whatever reason.

It might be a good idea to implement a scaling system which limits the requestable track size depending on how long the queue is. For example...

Queue length 1:30 or less = no limit
Queue length 1:30 to 2:00 = 15 min max
Queue length 2:00 to 2:30 = 10 min max
Queue length 2:30 to 3:00 = 8 min max
Queue length 3:00 to 3:30 = 6 min max
Queue length over 3:30 = Req Disabled

Those times are just an example of the idea that might be good to implement. They can be set and adjusted however the programmers and Jeric feel they should be. The Database should have enough data to calculate the request limit and we have Pesadelo and other programers who im sure could implement such a system if everyone feels its a good idea.

I have thought about an option like this before. But didn't think it was necessary, however now it may be time. Im not completely fond of such an idea myself, but it would help enforce the Request Netiquette that some people ignore.

Just an idea. Im neither pro or con for this, im neutral and just throwing it out there.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:02 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I voted no. And I will give you a couple of reasons. I ran into this at Death.fm just this past weekend where the queue was over 2 hours and a RIP member had 2 songs requested over 12 minutes each. AND a new member (who had just signed up that very day) had a song over 10 minutes in the queue. And here is the position that I took.

1. The RIP person is a paying member and I am reluctant to tell them that they can't hear what they want to. BUT saying that, that member got contemptuous and put in 16 minute track and I deleted it from the queue. (This is something only Admins at the site can do, and we have been known to exercise this ability in rare situations). This is a rare circumstance, and our wonderful moderator, Digi, sent them a PM and reminded them of the request netiquette.

2. The brand new member just signed up and didn't know the netiquette, but now they do.

3. Everyone's idea of "long" track is different. I polled the other admins at breakfast in New York when we saw Morricone. Sensei thought anything over 4 minutes was long, Chandler thought 5, TwoPop thought 7 and I think anything over 8 minutes is long. It's very subjective.

It would be great if everyone adhered to the netiquette about long requests, but I totally understand if you REALLY want to hear something. I have some long tracks in my favorites that I like to play every once in awhile too.

I'm not saying your idea will never happen, or that's it's a bad one. I'm just giving you my thoughts.

BQ
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:34 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Correct me if I'm wrong or overlooked something, but I think the idea here is to make queue shorter (especially when it gets really long).

So maybe we could consider just lowering the time at which requesting stops, instead of considering complicated system of excluding some tracks from people's choice of picks.

Let's set that requesting ceases at 2,5 or 3 hrs queue for example. It should make queue shorter, leaving tracks of all lenght available for requesting at the same time. I think it's easier way to force shorter queue.

Edit: My suggestion is not good, of course, if you want to have shorter queue and be able to continue requesting (short tracks at least).

BTW: What I said above is just my quick reflection about the topic opened here. Personally I don't feel any real urge to change SST's queue rules.
That's why I voted "no". But I like such discussions. I think they help developing SST. Thanks Cyberbrain for bringing this up.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:50 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I don't believe the idea is to make the queue shorter, but instead to allow a listener to hear their request within a reasonable time. Obviously disabling requesting doesn't accomplish this.

jeff
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:01 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


j2brown wrote:
I don't believe the idea is to make the queue shorter, but instead to allow a listener to hear their request within a reasonable time. Obviously disabling requesting doesn't accomplish this.


You are right j2. 100% agreed.

molossus wrote:

My suggestion is not good, of course, if you want to have shorter queue and be able to continue requesting (short tracks at least).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:47 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I think as long as the person is going to be around to hear their request, it shouldn't matter the length. Obviously someone requesting a 20 minute track when the queue is already at 3 hrs 20 minutes is over stepping the netiquette but that does not happen every day.

If person A comes in to a long queue and won't be able to hear their request in a reasonable amount of time, I find it a bit rude for them to complain. Obviously it is inconvenient but everyone else at the bottom of the queue is waiting the same amount of time.

To me requesting has felt like a "first come first served" situation - those that get to Williams first (for example), or those that get their request in the queue faster, etc, win basically. I only have a short time span that I know I can hear my request and I'm not keen on holding off on requesting just to please someone else.

I feel that if we start limiting people's ability to request longer tracks then it could just branch off to limiting people to not requesting the same artist continually, or limiting requests for certain songs that get played alot.

As a VIP I feel I have the right to play any song I want (as long as I stay within the netiquette) since I am paying. And I also feel that those who are not VIP and can only make 1 request a day (even on slow days) should have the right to make any request they want - long or short.

I think rather then implementing a limit on song length, we should put the request netiquette on the queue page. Since I established my favorites list I have not been to the playlist/request area of the site for quite a while and maybe some of the members are in the same boat or they just aren't seeing it.

But that is just my two cents and the reasons I voted no.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:44 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I have nothing to add, but voted no.
The reason why you can read in the previous posts.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:22 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Voted no.

Personally I try not too put very long tracks in a long queue, but most times it doesn't bother me when other people do.

When I realize that I won't be able to catch a certain song on a specific day, I just let it go. Another opportunity will come along. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:13 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


alien_avatar wrote:


Personally I try not too put very long tracks in a long queue, but most times it doesn't bother me when other people do.

When I realize that I won't be able to catch a certain song on a specific day, I just let it go. Another opportunity will come along. Smile


I voted no, because I agree with Alien Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:35 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I vote no, because this system as proposed would become yet another thing you need to worry about when making requests, after a) is this album in queue? and b) is this artist in queue? Feh. It takes me forever to pick something to request anyway.

By the by, Zgurl, I like you last post. Very well written; good job.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:19 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


The idea was to enable more people to request, and more often at the cost of suspending longer requests when the queue is long. This idea was NOT intended to disable one's ability to request, but to help prevent the queue from reaching over 3:30 while preserving people's ability to request something. I would rather be able to request a 6 minute track than not be able to request anything at all because someone else requested a 22 minute track when the queue was at 3:20.

Its mostly to help curb extremely long tracks from being requested constantly when the queue is long. I know on those days I just close SST and goto my mp3s. I started this post because every time it happens people would complain in SST chat, and I felt bad for them.

Currently all it takes is a one person to make long requests to fill up the queue, and if 2-3 decide to do it the queue is maxed fast while they marvel at the red "Disabled" text. Thus ruining everyone else's ability to request, which is unfair to those who wanted to request something.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:44 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I'm not pointing fingers or speaking about anyone in particular, but I've noticed that those who complain are some of the regulars who make multiple requests a day. Also, most of those who make the long requests (such as yesterday's queue) are not regular requesters, so really was it fair to get upset and complain? In my eyes no. I could see if we had repeat offenders who constantly fill the queue with long tracks, but usually it's a different person every time.

Plus as BQ pointed out, everyone has a different idea of what is considered a long track and what isn't, so how do we know if some of our requesters feel that 10 minutes is short? We can't.


Side note - Thanks LadyInque. I put alot of time into that last post! Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:22 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Cyberbrain wrote:
This idea was (...) to help prevent the queue from reaching over 3:30 while preserving people's ability to request something.


I suspect we won't really prevent queue from going over 3,5 hrs as long as requesting of any kind is available. Implementing new requesting obstacles can probably make the process of reaching 3,5 hrs just a bit longer. Interesting how much longer exactly and is that kind of gain worth the work needed to change current queue rules.

Quote:
Thus ruining everyone else's ability to request


For me only limiting for some amount of time. And temporal barriers in requesting are usual part of the queue rules here (also when queue is below 3:30).

All in all my reflection on this still is: if you want really shorter queue in peak hours - lower the request cut off point. And because the queue is always moving up, any cut off point still preserves the right to request, you just need to wait a bit to execute it.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:59 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


The requesting system we have right now has evolved drastically over the last 8 years as all the long-time SSTers can tell you.
The one that's in place now is actually a very good compromise between regulations we must follow, what people want, and what's fair.

The bottom line here is request netiquette. It's published, most people know what it is, and most people in their "real life" are polite and considerate.
The problems we see in the queue (e.g. some people requesting "too much" or putting several long tracks in the queue at once) are done on purpose. Those people are either inconsiderate individuals in their own "real" life and/or they like having the attention in chat. Mini-trolls I guess you'd say. Wink No amount of rules or limitations will change that.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:06 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


I am a long time SSTer!

Darn those mini-trolls! They are pretty much the reason a system like this would ever be needed.
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