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USA Dragonel VIP (subscribed member)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:51 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


Caliburn wrote:
Also SAM is still learning to pick better songs. So if no-one is requesting the quality of SAM should improve over the next weeks.


Looking at SAMs picks today, I was curious why some of the tracks were chosen. And that lead me to wondering if it would be possible to have SAM post a message on the request saying why a track was picked (eg "Least requested Random Track" or "from xxxx favorites")
Or if that isn't possible, maybe a bit of information about the track "Last played xxxxx, played x times in total" etc.

I don't know if anyone else would find that interesting or not, but I thought I'd mention it at least.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:24 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Okay here is an explanation how SAM works in more detail. At least in my understanding of reading the SAM documentation.

SAM works with a weight system. Songs with "high weight" are requested more often "low weight". Weight is between 0 and 100. When a "weighted" song is picked by SAM it uses the following rule: A song with high weight is requested more often than a low weight song: A song with weight 30 is picked two times less then a song with weight 60. I also configured now that a weight below 30 is not picked again.

Every time a song is played it will loose some weight. This was 0.2 before my changes and this is now 3. And when a song is requested it will gain weight by 5. So if a song is requested by someone and is played it will gain a weight by 2. If a song is picked by SAM it will loose 3 weight.

SAM only picks a song after not being played by 17 days. So 2 days more than a user can request it again.

When SAM picks tracks it now follows the following rotation

1. Pick a "weighted song".
2. Pick a song from a "least recent played artist". This is to promote less known soundtracks
3. Pick a "weighted song".
4. Pick the highest weighted song possible that has not played in the 17 days.
5. Pick a "weighted song".
6. Rinse and repeat from 1.

With the old system with weights gaining 5 when requesting and loosing only 0.2 made it possible for a great majority of tracks to hit the high weight region. When introducing the new system as described here above I reset all tracks with weight above 60 to 60. So most of the tracks that SAM picks are still in this huge 60s range. But when they are not requested anymore they will drop down over time. All songs that are requested will start to rise. This what I mean by SAM learning. But please note, we have not reached the 17 day mark yet. So all the requested songs with a weight higher than 60 are not available for SAM to pick from.

About adding comments to SAM picks. It should be possible but will require a lot of custom programming.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:45 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


That sounds great - SAM's picks will reflect the overall tone of SST recently, but will change over time if SST changes (an artist goes "out of fashion" or a new album gains popularity). But we still get an introduction to less played music too (and I was interested to see that is by artist, rather than soundtrack).
And knowing the pattern I can probably now tell which "pick-reason" each track is.

Thanks again for your work on this over the last couple of weeks.
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Netherlands Dutchbat
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:56 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


SAM setting looks promising. The future will show if it doesn't end up in a popularity struggle.
Maybe a change from "least recent played artist" to "low weight" also improves the quality of picks in the unknown field.

About Dragonel's proposal: I don't see the benefit of all the extra work.
If you are online to read them you might just as well request yourself and leave SAM out
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Netherlands Dutchbat
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:00 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


There is some change notable in SAM picking.
Although due to the reset I think SAM now repeats the sequence of the requesting 17 days before.

Although people on chat claim otherwise, there have been several days now with SAM all the way until 08.15 am European Time. Also on the USA evening times there's more trouble keeping SAM out.
So I urgently ask to restore the 2 minute wait for VIPs as the proclaimed effect is not achieved.

Or are you going to delete this message too, as too true and disturbing?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:06 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Dutchbat wrote:
So I urgently ask to restore the 2 minute wait for VIPs as the proclaimed effect is not achieved.


Isn't it going to 2 minutes at off-peak times? I've seen it go there at least once recently. It was supposed to be evenings and weekends right? Maybe "evening" just needs to start a little sooner?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:12 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Grenadier wrote:

Isn't it going to 2 minutes at off-peak times?


I believe it is Grenadier.

As Cal mentioned above:

Caliburn wrote:
So I made some changes to the request times:

It should be 5 minutes during weekdays from 2 AM to 5 PM SST time. The other hours is 2 minutes.


I haven't heard about any changes since then.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:18 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


No recent changes from my part indeed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:57 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


That's what I thought. My point is that Dutch is having issues with the 5 minute timer at times when it should have gone to two. So either something is wrong, or his window of time when he thinks 2 minutes would be useful is not inside the window of "off-peak."
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:11 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


as far as i know, the 2 minutes timer works from the european side. if you arrive before 8 its 2 minutes, afterwards 5.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:54 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Caliburn wrote:
Okay here is an explanation how SAM works in more detail. At least in my understanding of reading the SAM documentation.

SAM works with a weight system. Songs with "high weight" are requested more often "low weight". Weight is between 0 and 100. When a "weighted" song is picked by SAM it uses the following rule: A song with high weight is requested more often than a low weight song: A song with weight 30 is picked two times less then a song with weight 60. I also configured now that a weight below 30 is not picked again.

Every time a song is played it will loose some weight. This was 0.2 before my changes and this is now 3. And when a song is requested it will gain weight by 5. So if a song is requested by someone and is played it will gain a weight by 2. If a song is picked by SAM it will loose 3 weight.

SAM only picks a song after not being played by 17 days. So 2 days more than a user can request it again.

When SAM picks tracks it now follows the following rotation

1. Pick a "weighted song".
2. Pick a song from a "least recent played artist". This is to promote less known soundtracks
3. Pick a "weighted song".
4. Pick the highest weighted song possible that has not played in the 17 days.
5. Pick a "weighted song".
6. Rinse and repeat from 1.

With the old system with weights gaining 5 when requesting and loosing only 0.2 made it possible for a great majority of tracks to hit the high weight region. When introducing the new system as described here above I reset all tracks with weight above 60 to 60. So most of the tracks that SAM picks are still in this huge 60s range. But when they are not requested anymore they will drop down over time. All songs that are requested will start to rise. This what I mean by SAM learning. But please note, we have not reached the 17 day mark yet. So all the requested songs with a weight higher than 60 are not available for SAM to pick from.

About adding comments to SAM picks. It should be possible but will require a lot of custom programming.


I did some analysis and at the moment there is still a problem that the majority of the our playlist has the same weight of 60 because of the old system. So I made a change that when a song is requested it gets a weight of +10. When it is played -8. So it's weight gain is still 2 when it is requested and played. All the SAM picks will get more a boost downwards by -8.

I also made a change (that I still need to get confirmed) that songs below 60 are not picked as a weighted song for the time being. I hope this will help to drop large group of the 60 weight tracks. In a couple of months or so. I will move this large group to a lower weight range. So it you want to help me: pick the songs you like but have not requested in ages. This way it will probably not be moved to the lower ranges.

If I do not make any sense feel free to ask :-)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:19 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


Hmmmm I can trim down this huge list by excluding tracks that are in peoples favlist!

Interesting.. that should make it easier to drop the weight on a lot of tracks and can be done very soon.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:18 am   Post subject: Reply with quote


I'm looking forward to seeing results of this recent tweaking.
Thank you Cal!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:44 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


This may be clear to some, but I'm just not seeing it. Does a song's weight change only when SAM requests it, or when a regular user requests it, or both?

And just so I'm clear, this system means that SAM doesn't play the more popular tracks? Or that it does, and ignores the tracks no one's heard of?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:33 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote


It is both.

- I want to listen to the track with a weight of 60.
- I request it, making the weight go to 70.
- Queue is doing it's thing until the track is going to be played.
- After it is played the weight goes to 62.

In the other case when the track has a weight of 60 and SAM decides to play it, it will go down to 52 when it is done playing.

At the moment SAM now plays everything about the weight of 60. So also the more popular tracks. This will be lowered again when the huge 60 thing is fixed.

But keep in mind one of the 5 songs SAM picks is a "least requested artist" track to also support the less know artists. And one of the 5 is the most popular track that SAM can pick at that time.
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